FMS FinPub Pro

Agora's #1 newsletter promo of the past 7-years.

• John Newtson

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Copywriter Chris Cimorelli joins me to talk about his latest promotion. This newsletter promotion generated $4.5 million in subscription sales in the first 24-hours, making it the #1 single sales day for a promotion at Agora over the past 7-years. It went on to sell $8.8 million in subscriptions over it's 5-day launch window.

FinPub Pro is produced by The Financial Marketing Summit, the #1 networking and marketing conference for financial newsletter publishers, trader educators, and digital financial media.

John Newtson, host and founder of The Financial Marketing Summit can be reached via LinkedIn at John Newtson

John Newtson:

All right, hey everyone. So I'm start with. A few years ago I had Mark Ford on here and it was in the depths of FinPub's kind of crisis, when everybody was pulling promos, when everyone, because of FTC stuff and things were going south, and he said something really kind of like uncomfortable. He said that he wasn't sure if our model, meaning the Agora model, really had a future, basically. And then recently I heard a rumor that after Chris Cimorelli's latest promo, which did what $4.5 million on day one and $8.8 million over the next couple of days there was a rumor that Mark said something along the lines of this promo restored his faith in our newsletter model. So my first question, chris, is how does it feel to have restored the faith of a very wealthy man in the model that made him wealthy?

Chris Cimorelli:

It almost felt as good as putting up Agora's best sales number in seven years. It was my personal best. It actually beat my personal best day one number by by three times and it honestly it surpassed the expectations of every single person at paradigm press. Um, we literally did a, a poll like um, you know, like a bet. Um, within the, the entire, like Slack channel of you know, the graphic designers and the producers and the videographers and the marketers and everyone who was on this project, it's like what do you think the day one total is going to be? One person guessed like 3.2, which was the highest mark, and it did 1.2 million more than that. So that felt spectacular. And, yeah, I saw that email come through from Mark Ford, which was pretty cool. I've spoken with Mark a few times over the years. I'd like to catch up with him next time I'm in Florida.

Chris Cimorelli:

But, definitely it does feel, and there's something I want to say that just you know it really is a team effort and it really shows you what happens when you have a well-oiled machine at your company. I'm going to be the last person to tell you that, like, the copywriter is the most important ingredient, like, yes, the copy is really important, but having a team of very, very professional, driven, fast-working people is the only way that you can get those kind of numbers today.

John Newtson:

Yeah, yeah. So just to back up for a second, everybody this here, if you don't know him, is Chris Cimorelli. He's more than just a copywriter, though. He's clearly an awesome copywriter and, like I said, put up the best numbers in Agora pretty much in a very long period of time really. And you are also an editor, you're an analyst, yeah. So let's back up before we dig into this promo, because there's a lot of stuff to talk about with this promo. What's your background in Finbub?

Chris Cimorelli:

So I started with the Agora Companies in 2014. It's a bit of a funny story. I was an English major in college. I wanted to be a teacher. I loved those movies, like you know, um to serve with love and freedom, writers and my stuff and I wanted to save the world. I had these grandiose visions of of doing that and I ended up getting a job in Baltimore City teaching in an alternative high school and I left after three months because my students were at a three grade, third grade reading level. None of them had two parents in the household. It was an alternative high school so it was like worse than like the typical bad high school in inner city. It was actually completely untenable.

Chris Cimorelli:

So here I am, fresh out of college with an English degree, living in Mount Vernon by Agora. Don't know what Agora is. Start looking for writing editing jobs and see this advertisement for six figure copywriter and I decided that's what I wanted to do with my life. I wanted to write for a living because I loved writing again, English major and money sounded good, really good when you're fresh out of college and shit out of luck and fresh out of a job. So I ended up applying to. You know I mean almost more than half a dozen positions. They eventually threw me a bone and they're like hey, we're hiring an editorial assistant at the Sovereign Society in Delray Beach, Florida, and by this point I'd moved back home to Charleston, South Carolina, and I had no interest in moving to Florida. But I'm like I really want to work for this company and I just want to get my foot in the door. I want to write copy, I just need to get my foot in the door.

Chris Cimorelli:

I look at the Sovereign Society and it ended up being perfect timing going there when I did but it was at the time you know very much like I could guess I could say this the redheaded stepchild of Agora is doing maybe $6 million a year. It wasn't profitable. We had this other division of that company called Dent Research with Harry Dent, which was actually successful and profitable. But it was kind of a risk on my part. But it ended up being very, very fortuitous because a year later we had a man step in who ended up becoming my copy mentor for many years Aaron DeHogue, who grew Sovereign Society, changed his name to Bandy Hill, grew it 2,000% in three years. So I got to watch that evolution and study under him, and also very elite copywriters like Angel Suarez. And, of course, I was in the industry at the same time that guys like Jared Feintuck were putting up $10 million with every single promotion they wrote for Money Matt Press. So everything worked out pretty well for me.

Chris Cimorelli:

A lot of luck involved Would never have figured out what Agora was if I wasn't living down the street in Baltimore, Maryland, 12 years ago, and I'm back in Baltimore today. I decided to move back here so I could be close to the headquarters operations of Paradigm Press, but so I mean, I've been writing copy. I ended up getting into copy in 2016,. Basically, I've put up I don't even know what the number is anymore it's 85 million maybe at this point but I've always, as a copywriter, really cared about trading and understanding the financial markets. I've made a lot of money. I've lost a lot of money with my own trading and I think that's what makes me able to write things like this promotion, where I think when people write this, they can tell that whoever wrote this has a really, really firm grasp of the narratives behind the stocks that were selected, and it just requires that little bit of extra insight that I have been cultivating very intentionally for a number of years, to the point now where I'm actually the analyst on our microcap newsletter with James Altucher.

Chris Cimorelli:

I've been managing that product essentially for a year. I pick most of the investments on it. I run them by him because I'm not a Wall Street guy. I never worked on Wall Street, I never managed money, I didn't even have a finance degree I was an English major but it's actually turned out to be a very, very successful product and the readers have responded to it very well. And I've now in the last year in my personal trading account I've made 1,000% gains 18 different times in 18 different trades. So 1,000% gains, 18 different times and 18 different trades. So now we're launching a new product where it's just like a swing for the fences, like go big or go home, like speculative options trading service, where it's just like I have cracked the 10X code. I figured out the exact architecture of how 1,000% gains happen. I've done it 18 times in the last year. I've never been putting up huge amounts of money, but I've made hundreds of thousands of dollars on these 18 trades, never investing more than like 3,300 bucks, I think was the largest position size.

Chris Cimorelli:

So for financial copywriters. Something always occurred to me that was very strange. I always thought it was strange how many financial copywriters I would talk to and they just put their money in an index fund, just like have you no soul, have you no drive? Do you know? Desire to like lose money, to take risks and then figure out the emotionality of that Cause. That's, I think, what makes you really really good. Making money is good, but like sometimes when you lose money in the market, like that's the best teacher you can ever make and that can be your catalyst to writing really, really, really killer copy, because now you get it when you make a decision about your money and then you screw it up, which I've done, like full disclosure I've done, I've made it back, but that's a journey that really puts you in in the mind and heart and soul of your subscriber now.

John Newtson:

So yeah, that's awesome. So let's talk about this. Well, actually that that reminds me of some things that you know I remember Porter talking talking about how, like you know, he likes to to write these dense promos, because he's like, if you're an actual investor or trader, you want to talk, you want the information, and if it's just, uh, if it's super light on any type of meat, then what you really have, what you're really getting, is the customer who is not a real investor and that is not a great customer. He doesn't keep buying products, he doesn't stick around because he's not really in the markets, and so I think what you have is actually you have this and customers that you would see a very obvious like breakup of people who, like, actually are in the markets and who are not start to show up. Not with everybody. There's some writers who can do it, but I think there's a lot of people who write things that are much more well, just light.

Chris Cimorelli:

No, no, I know exactly what you're getting at and this is something that we do very intentionally at Paradigm Press. I mean, yes, most of my sales are still from Banyan by virtue of the fact that I spent longer there. I've been in Paradigm for two and almost two and a half years now. However, working for that operation has definitely helped me up my game. I mean, there are copywriters with more sales than me. I'm doing very well right now, obviously, but we always want to have like a story and our publisher, matt Inslee. He always says something like it needs to be weird, there's gotta be something weird about it. Like he really, really cares about that weirdness, that very unique edge and specificity that you haven't seen anywhere else, and just something that just breaks up the pattern that just you know, uh, just taps into something raw.

John Newtson:

I'd love that because to me that is classic, like classic newsletter. Right, the newsletter world was always like this weird dude in his basement who had this crazy experience maybe on Wall Street and he figured something out and he's taking a weird angle or he's going after weird markets or he's doing things that you don't see elsewhere and like part of the problem I think we have is with trading and investing kind of being mainstream, that a lot of what we say sounds like what you see elsewhere now and it's very hard to stick out if you're not to use his words weird.

Chris Cimorelli:

Well, we have gurus like James Altucher, who is genuinely a weird guy, and I mean that as a compliment. I've followed him for much longer than I've worked with him. I always found him very, very interesting. He's a Renaissance man and I think that people see him and they're just like. This guy is clearly brilliant and he's strange as hell and I've never seen anyone like him. It's funny. I was actually.

Chris Cimorelli:

I took a trip to Germany with my choir in June and, unfortunately, we were launching a promotion that I wrote for james and someone on in my choir was sitting behind me on the plane while I'm like typing edits on the video, like on the plane, like 3 am in the morning, 30, 50, 000 feet in the air, and then when we got off the plane, this this rachel is her name she was like I have to know what you were doing on your computer because that guy on your screen just looked so strange and I've never seen anyone like him and that's that's the point. He's not buttoned up, he doesn't wear a suit and tie, and jim rickards is kind of the same way. Jim rickards has a kind of a strange quality to him. This is like like he's very, very soft-spoken but like, very, very elite but at the same time very contrarian. Like has a kind of like darkness to him. He's a very, very sweet man actually, but like his worldview is very much like.

Chris Cimorelli:

There are problems and I'm going to make sure that you're aware of them and I have knowledge about how bad it is that you do not have Distinct characters. Exactly that's what they are. They're characters. I have a bit of an acting background on the side. I always liked doing theater and choir and stuff like that. You've got to have something distinct. If you're just buttoned up with a suit and tie at the same point, it's like how are you really so different than the guys I see on CNBC? Like I can, I can get that for free. I mean, I you know you pay $50 a month for cable, but at the same time it's just like I'm already. I'm already paying for that.

John Newtson:

Right, yeah, yeah. So let's, let's, let's talk about this promo. If I remember correctly, this was a kind of a all the editors get together and do one big promo, so there's that element of it. But then there is the like you want to walk through what the thematic is of this promo and then we can get into, kind of like the what you did.

Chris Cimorelli:

Absolutely so. And did we say? What this ended up doing on day one was like 4.4 million dollars. Yeah, that's what it started, yeah, yeah, and and you and you have to understand that like there is a certain architecture to putting up a number like that. So I mean, it's really started with a conversation in may or where matt, our publisher, was like we need another like three editor summit for pmg, the paradigm mastermind, that's our all-in, basically service, where it's just like for the price of one backend, you get access to our top three guys.

Chris Cimorelli:

And some people were pitching what they thought the best idea would be. Some people wanted to make it about energy and electricity, because utility bills are going up and AI is very, very hungry for power, and that was like an idea that like they could all comment on, and I was like I just don't think electricity is really the right thing and like this is May, so it's just like that. That trade war is still very, very much a hot topic and I'm like I think that's the topic. I think that Trump has now revealed in the last few weeks that like everything is about China, everything comes back to China, and it's just sort of backing into this narrative and we don't reveal China until maybe 30, 40 minutes into the promotion. But it's basically this idea that we're about ready to enter a new season, even a new age. In America we don't call it golden age because that's just a term that's out there but it's this idea that you know, we have three guys who have collectively, through their independent research, all arrived at the same conclusion. So that's what we're holding this all-in summit because historically, when the three of these guys align, magic can happen. You know it's how they picked Palantir Technologies. You know, in late 2020, early 2024. You know, in January 2024, the year it became the number one stock in the S&P 500.

Chris Cimorelli:

It's how they picked MP Materials. Before, like a couple of them, like James's option service had like a 900% gain on MP Materials, the pick was something called USAR. That's the ticker USA Rare Earths and it's like MP Materials, a rare earth metals company. Mp Materials is the only rare earth manufacturer in the country. Usar is more similar to Jim Rickards' birthright thesis, which, if you're listening to a financial newsletter podcast, you would probably know what that promotion is. But it's this idea that Trump is unleashing the $150 trillion secret trust fund or birthright of minerals. You know oil, gold, silver, copper, natural gas, that we have uh on us land, and so this company is more aligned with that thesis than something like mp materials, which is already producing the metals. Usa rare earths owns, uh, the largest rare earth site outside of China, and it's not profitable yet because there's not a mine yet, it's not set up mine, they just own the mineral rights. So it's one of those birthright companies.

Chris Cimorelli:

So you start with this idea that they're all in on the same idea and it's at the center of America's biggest transformation in 50 years and it touches every single major theme that's going on in the market right now. Because what does rare earths touch? Well, technology, because you need rare earths and technology. So it's at the center of, like, the ai revolution. It's also at the center of, you know, reshoring, you know american manufacturing of, of reclaiming, you know energy and mineral sovereignty and unleashing the birthrights.

Chris Cimorelli:

Um, and there was like two other things. But it's just like going down this list which is like, hey, all of these hot, hot topics that you see in the news that you've heard from us, there's one idea, all three of them have come to it, and this one stock we predict could go up 1,494% by this time next year. How do we get to that number? Very simply, you take the company's market cap and then you figure out like how many minerals that the company actually have and it cap and then you figure out like how many minerals of the company actually have, and it turned out like the best estimate I saw was like 22 billion dollars. So it's like a one point to one point. So you just go to percentage calculatorcom 1494. Now you have a very unique, very specific number that feels real. It's not just saying it's gonna go up a thousand percent, like anyone can say. That doesn't seem like a base anything. You need a specific number. So that's how we got that.

Chris Cimorelli:

But then it starts with jim records, because of course he's the one who's brought in the most fronted names of the last, you know, six months and he's like this story that we're about to talk about. Yes, it does have to do with my birthright, pieces I've shared with you, but in a way it's bigger because this impacts the core of america itself. Then it goes to james and and it's like James basically says what Trump is planning right now could literally double the size of the US stock market. And there's one investment you need to own. It's the same investment we've all put our finger on that is really at the center of this big transformation. We call it America 2.0, which is just a term that just ripped off from an old Banyan promotion that Aaron DeHoe wrote. It's just a good term, but also that was a manufacturing idea, that promotion you know back in the day.

Chris Cimorelli:

And then it gets to Enrique, the third guy, who's, you know, not as well known to our file, but he's got serious street cred. He managed over a billion dollars on Wall Street. So he's the only guy on our file who can say that they're like oh, we got like a $4 billion fund manager. That's pretty freaking hot. And then he gets up and he shows this chart of America in 1990. And it shows by state the average employer by sector, and of course it was manufacturing. Two thirds of the country was this one color in 1990. And then you fast forward to today and it shows you that in three quarters of the country the top like highest average employer per state is healthcare.

Chris Cimorelli:

So now you go to this like whoa, like we went from a country, a real country, a proper country, a first world country that made things that you know employed people in high paying jobs where they had function and purpose and actually saw the product of their work, to a country that takes care of sick people and we really suck at doing that and yet that's our primary function now. So now it's like you've really, like, brought an emotional charge to this. We're like you're kind of pissed off, but also like you understand that there's hope at the center of this. And even if you don't like donald trump, we don't make this about trump. Really. We just make it about, like this policy in this inevitable shift in dynamic that we're talking about.

Chris Cimorelli:

So so now you've got the three of them. They've each made their pitch about, like, why this thing matters, and then jim comes back in and reveals we're talking about china. And then you back into the rare earth thing. But it's also like china, you know, like their economy's literally gone up 10 000 over the last 50 years. So 50 years is a big theme here. What happened 50 years ago? We? We basically started, you know, uh, offshoring our manufacturing center. China's manufacturing center is five trillion trillion a year roughly, and you know we get 80% of our pharmaceuticals, 90% of our antibiotics, you know, and, of course, like 90% of our rare earth metals which we need, and all the advanced technology, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah, and from there the rest of the promotion is cake.

John Newtson:

That's like half the promotion though I love that, so that. So the birthright piece is kind of the weirdness on the front yeah, I guess you could say it's.

Chris Cimorelli:

I don't know if it's the weirdness because it's unexpected, I guess, except for jim's file yeah, yeah, I guess for people who are not familiar with that thesis, it would be unexpected. It's kind of like putting them in familiar territory, so it's like touching base with, like hey, where we've been. But it's also just one of these ideas that's very, very easy to articulate to a cold reader, because it's just like oh, ok, yeah, I know we have a lot of minerals and I guess I've heard that Trump wants to unleash this, and you guys put up this big gain already and you found something that you're saying is 50 times bigger, so it has 50 times more of these elements. But then from there, you know, after the all-in pick, which is one of five stocks we pitch, they each have their own and Jim pitches an AI drone company, james pitches an AI automation factory company, and then Enrique pitches an AI power company, because we're going to need and that's where the electricity thesis comes back into this, because it's an important element to the story but it was only a piece of it.

Chris Cimorelli:

And then there was a final all-in piece at the end that's worked with 30, 40, 50, 100 large companies over the years. It's basically a manufacturing giant, united states, that no one knows by name, right? Um? So that's how the architecture of of this worked and it was a very it's a two-hour promotion, essentially hour an hour and 40 minutes Very, very rich in detail, packed with story, lots of emotional elements to it, like America and feel good and also Trump, but also AI, but also minerals, so it's got something for every single person.

John Newtson:

And once you put those three guys, they each have their own unique take where they're showing their own individual side of themselves and the way they approach the markets then also like it builds into this, just like unit, it's like yeah and that and that I think about that, um, that comparison of like 1990 to today and the move from manufacturing to to health care, because when you see it like you say there's an emotional thing, there's a there's, there's an emotional part, but it's also like there's a paradigm, like you know what I mean. It makes something that vague feeling that people have about what's happened to our economy seem very concrete and it just putting those two up next to each other by itself creates a narrative.

Chris Cimorelli:

Yeah, right, because we've been frogs in boiling water for so long. It's like we understand there's something, we went wrong somewhere, but you don't really think of it, and I just made sure to put this into very, very clear terms where it's just like these free trade deals were dumb. And just do the side by side comparison of China's economy 50 years ago Ours was 10 times larger, and then we show what it is now and it's like there's just two thirds the size of ours, and it's all because of this one thing. And now Trump is reversing the one thing. It's very, very simple, but it's also just like you can't really argue with it. That is the truth. Like that is where we have been. That's why people have voted for Trump, love him or hate him, and but then you bring that up as well. It's just like it doesn't matter how you feel about Trump. You know this is happening for a reason. You know exactly why, if you're an intelligent, reasonable person, which I think any financial newsletter subscriber is, or at least thinks they are.

John Newtson:

We all think we are right, like we all think we are, but also like that kind of like paradigm shift when you see things like that, like has a really like, a really strong. It's not just an emotional impact, it's, I think of it as, like this moment when you have moments like that in your promo, all of a sudden you've explained the world in a new way that makes everything else make sense to somebody, and so like they're suddenly really open and engaged to your message, because it's like holy shit, I never thought about that, and that moment is like I got to hear what else they're going to say. But also like this is the person who made me see that thing that I didn't see, and it's impacted me so much that, like I'm in on this conversation now.

Chris Cimorelli:

And once you understand it, then you understand this is literally the biggest story. This is the only story and obviously, if we're reversing 50 years of damage, that has created a five trillion dollar a year business for china. There's crap, tons of money it's about to pour into the usa. There's this recurring idea that, like, uh, morgan stanley said this is a 10 trillion dollar opportunity, and then our guys are like this is a 10 trillion dollar opportunity and then our guys are like this is not 10 trillion dollars because trump has already guaranteed 10 trillion dollars in investments. You think that we're done? We're not done. We're nowhere close.

Chris Cimorelli:

That's from like a handful of companies and actually sovereign nations that have agreed to put up 10 trillion dollars in investment in the us because, guess what, they don't want to work with tiny either. They're like we're getting screwed over by them. They interfere with our elections. They house put up $10 trillion in investment in the US Because, guess what, they don't want to work with China either. They're like we're getting screwed over by them. They interfere with our elections, they house cyber criminals. They do this, that and the others. It's like we kind of prefer to work with the US. Actually, it's just like they're bullies too, but at least they're not evil sometimes no-transcript.

John Newtson:

The discord and I think we've had it separately offline before um is that in this, especially in 22, like when, after the dip, we've talked about this thing, that for such a long time we had copywriters who came up, you know, during the longest bull market in history that had, you know, crypto come in, and you look back to all those promos. I don't have that document that has like the lead headlining, lead complexes from all the promos that did like 10 million and above, right on the back end, and all of those during that peak period of, like you know, 2016 to like 20, they were all profit centric. It was a new mechanism on a black box system with thousands, all this stuff right. And one of the conversations that we were having in the dark part of FinPub was that it's going to take a while for writers to adjust to the old school idea of an investment thesis and building an investment thesis and not just selling potential gains. And that was part of the FTC issues too, because an investing thesis promo is not going to trigger things in the same way as hey, this is going to make. Look at these thousand percent gains that are all cherry picked, right.

John Newtson:

And so to me when you talk about this like this, is that idea Exactly Like? You've built this amazing investment thesis that plugs into the zeitgeist of the times. It's dense with information. How long was it? You said it was like an hour Hour and a half An hour, 40 minutes Dense, dense information Going into individual stocks. We have a big macro thesis Going down to the individual stocks from all the different editors and it's not a make 1,000% because we have this secret system that does X and Y or whatever, and you make a thousand percent because we have this secret system that does X and Y or whatever and you make a bunch of money. It's a real like, engaging investment thesis. That like is a promo and that again is like. This is classic to me FinPub. This is like the thing that made FinPub great to begin with.

Chris Cimorelli:

I think I I I love the way that you're articulating this because you know it was funny, because when I started writing copy, it was in that very bubbly territory. Like I basically started writing sales copy a transition from editorial in 2016. And that was like the start of like the real bull market and that's when, just like greed took over over and and as I was starting my copy career, I think that was probably good for me, because I saw some of the things that people were writing in 2015 that were still very much that kind of classic finpub style and like this is so creative and like I don't know how they came up with this. Now that I've really like ingratiated myself in the financial markets for 10 years, it's very easy for me to come up with a story like this. That central stock was my idea. I recommended it in our other service that I managed with James, but I was like that is the pick for this. It touches all of these guys. The only person I would have been worried about rejecting it would have been James, and we'd already recommended it in another service that I manage. So that's where this is. This was a lot of. Also, this is just a lot of fun to write, like, I have to say, because it is just this rich and compelling idea that's satisfying in its own right.

Chris Cimorelli:

And something we haven't talked about is that we really made this like an event for the readers where they didn't leave feeling like they got pitched something, Cause that's the worst feeling in the world, Right, that just happened to me, you know, the other day. It's just like I I saw something that I wanted and I set up a call and then, like they're just going through like 30 minutes of of questions and it's this, you know's this sales architecture, where it's just like they're asking you questions to get you to say yes, I'm just like. I really would just love to just make this person shut up and be like I have $85 million in sales, I know exactly what you're doing. Can we just get to the point? I'm a warm client. Let's just cut to the chase. I should just say that I should just say that, John, but for I should just say that I should just say that.

Chris Cimorelli:

But um, for this, we, we gave them a free report. The second they signed up for the hot list. I think they had to enter their phone number as well, but it was basically like anatomy of a six thousand percent gain and that was the peak return of that mp materials, that rare earth options trade that we had recommended like a month or two prior to this promotion going out. And so it's just like, well, I kind of want that report like anatomy of a 6,000% gain. It's like sure, I want to know what the anatomy of a 6,000% gain is. How do you do that? How did you do that? So they get that for free.

Chris Cimorelli:

But then when they come to the promotion, it's just like if you stay to the end, you get this other report and it names projects like Northern Dynasty Minerals, you know, owns the Pebble Project in Alaska. It also names what else did we give away? I mean stuff like Project Colossus with like Elon Musk, you know. It's just like obviously like Tesla's playing on that, but it's like so is Dell, so is AMD, so it's those kind of like big, like physical, literal projects like lithium mines, things like that, Structurally, the ones that you you give away directly and you really do, those come first before you tease some things at the end.

Chris Cimorelli:

No, because they don't get that promotion until after. But we don't. We don't suggest that there's anything in that report that like they've got to have, like that there's anything in that report that like they've got to have like it's interesting enough, where it's just like I kind of want that report. But I think it's sort of like understood that like you're not getting this one big, friggin awesome idea. It's like I want the one big friggin awesome idea. It's like I appreciate you giving me something.

Chris Cimorelli:

And I wrote that report. I picked those 10 projects, I picked the 10 companies like you could invest in and it's attached to them. So it's just like so it's got good value because you've got an analyst who's actually picking this stuff and analyst slash copywriter who's doing it. So anyone who got their report was like oh, this is kind of cool and it's like it's got a map. It shows like where the projects are. It's like literally it's like a roadmap. So doing that does two things it boost conversions because it gets them to stay to the end and it just gives them that feeling just like like oh, I feel good, I don't feel pitched, because you gave me a compelling story and you're offering me something for free, which also boosts conversions, but it also doesn't piss people off, which is good for future conversions as well.

John Newtson:

Nice, and so I'd love for every copywriter who's listening to hear, listen to that really closely, especially the ones who are kind of like struggling right now. Was it you that was telling me that, like a couple weeks ago, that you're hot.

Chris Cimorelli:

Someone was asking if you're hiring copywriters and you're like, yeah, we had this conversation, or this does happen to me a lot where, like I have, have people like dropping my, my dms and linkedin and they ask me are you hiring at paradigm? And it's a copywriter, and sometimes it's copywriters I've worked with like good copywriters and I, I, I I'd have to tell them. It's like you're asking the wrong question, the, the, the. The right way to do this is what do you want to write about? And sometimes I can't get an answer, john, which is concerning. It's just like, why do you want? Why would you want to write here? I mean, I understand like, like, yeah, paradigm's like the best in the industry right now, like we're putting the best numbers. But I can also tell you I've had some promotions. Can I swear on here, john? Am I allowed to swear on here? I've had some promotions. Apparently I'm completely shit. The fucking bed.

Chris Cimorelli:

Like I had a promotion that did like a quarter of a million dollars, which, especially at paradigm, sucks, it sucks. It was like one of the worst things I ever wrote and I wrote that at paradigm. Actually, no, no, funny story. The first thing I did at paradigm, um, like after I transferred from fromanyan Hill and went there, it was a backend for Jim Rickards and I wrote this idea. Matt didn't like it, our copy chief, patrick, they didn't like it. They're like we're going to do this, we're going to do a live, we're going to do Bill O'Reilly, we're doing it live, except it's with Jim Rickards and it and it's going to be the emergency banking summit and it's going to lead to this landing page. We're going to take some of the copy of your book, put it on that landing page.

Chris Cimorelli:

John, this thing did $20,000. It's my first promotion to Paradigm. It has a hot list in everything it does $20,000. And, to the credit of the team there, we got into a Zoom call like this the next day and I was like this can't happen again. And they were like you're right, it can't happen again. And so on the next promotion, they basically gave me free reign and that promotion did okay. It ended up doing $800,000, $900,000 over the next year, which is fine, but where was I going with this?

Chris Cimorelli:

Yeah, you have to have an idea. You can't just be like, hey, I want to write for you. It's like why, what is your idea? Or it'll be like, well, what services need some TLC? And it's just like, honestly, if we have services that have TLC, we'll just won't market them. We'll market whatever is hot and fresh and we'll keep them on the back burner because it has good track record and servicing our readers and it might be marketable someday, but it's not now, so we're just not going to worry about it. We're going to market what we can market, because we can make $100 million a year doing that and keep that stuff for later, so it's what is your deal?

John Newtson:

What you?

Chris Cimorelli:

want to write about? What do you want to write about? What do you care about? This is what I'm talking about, john. There's so many financial copywriters who don't even have like stocks that they care about. And don't talk to me about tesla. I don't want to hear about tesla. Shut up, shut up, shut up.

John Newtson:

Have another stock that you care about besides tesla yeah, and that, so that this is where that whole deal like this is. Again, this is classic newsletter and like right now, this period in time, the entire world is shifting right, like the whole geopolitical order is changing, which then means the entire economic system is changing the supply chain, everything is changing right and it's a newsletter writer's market. If you, if you love big ideas, if you love like the impacts of those torn through, like, like markets and portfolios and everything. It's a fascinating fucking time right to write and talk about markets. It's one of the most fascinating times probably since like, yeah, like it's back to classic.

John Newtson:

You know, I came up under clayton make peace and he was one of the you know last like the bridge direct mail to you know copywriters to hear, and I remember like telling all the stories about direct mail and what they would, him and bensavenga and they were like, yeah, they would have people write, hit them up and say, hey, we need a package. But just as often he'd be like I have this idea that I need to write and I'm going to find someone to pay me for it and he would pitch it to them. And that's the world we're in. Is that like there should be things that you're just like. Someone should be writing about this. I got to write about this, and pitching that to people is going to get you more work than the kind of very meek like well, what do you have?

Chris Cimorelli:

Well, and I have to say, john, you're absolutely right. So this idea, this all-in summit, as I said and I'm not dunking on the leadership of Parahab at all They've helped me up my game a lot. When I submit shit copy, they tell me it sucks, and then that pisses me off and I go fix it and I'm like you're right, and then it's better and that's how I am making the sales, the money I do. But they weren't necessarily eager about this. Like china tariff trade idea, because and this actually became a real issue what if trump makes a tweet where he's like I love g, g and our best friends, we're selling the uS to China? Obviously, he's not going to say that. But what if he's going to say we have a deal, we worked it out before this deadline. And so the weekend after we filmed this, a news article came out that Scott Besson, treasury Secretary of the United States, and officials from China are meeting in Switzerland and they're basically like we're going to do another 90-day pause and we're like fuuuuuck. But like we, like everyone, was just like well, we recorded evergreen pickups, we're just going to do the evergreen pickups. And I was like guys, guys, I know that you're pissed off right now, because you said this would happen and it's happening.

Chris Cimorelli:

However, I have a hunch, a very, very strong hunch, knowing Donald Trump as well as I do. I haven't even read the art of the deal, but I feel like I do understand the man's psychology a little bit. He's going to maximize his leverage. He's going to wait until the absolute last minute to announce officially that this next pause is on the table, because that's what the news shows. It's like like Besson and these trade officials in China agreed on this, but Trump gets the last say. Why would he be like, yeah, that's fine. No, he's going to make China sweat. How do I know this? Because he's Donald Trump and that's what he does. You know anything about how to make a deal and maximize leverage, which he is the perfect person at doing? That that's what he's going to do. Sure enough, he did not wait until August 12th, which was the deadline. He waited until about 3 pm, 2 pm, august 11th. 3 pm 2 pm august 11th.

Chris Cimorelli:

So we cut our deadline short by like a day, by which point we'd already made eight and a half million dollars, so we're like I'm fine there you go close the campaign, we'll save an evergreen version, roll it out when this next 90 days expires.

Chris Cimorelli:

But you know, I but my point is what you said I had to really fight for this idea and, to their credit, when a copywriter is really, really impassioned about an idea and they make a really, really compelling argument about why they need to do it this way, they will listen. And it does require just some like, not putting your foot down, not being a dick, but just making a really good argument. And it's not a copy argument, it's like a business argument, it's just like. I think this is the right business move. This is the story. And is there a risk? Yeah, there's a little bit of a risk, but that's also why we got the reward that we did and and and.

Chris Cimorelli:

When this dropped, like all this, like tension about like, will Trump, you know, extend the? But we'll only. That's like in the news right now. Like now it's this fever pitch and like, at the same time, like he's announcing this deal with India and with Europe, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So now it's getting really hot again. It's in the news everyone's gods are shining on you, exactly exactly, or yeah, my, my, you know, mother in heaven, or something like that looking out for me um so but it's like, yeah, yeah, go ahead.

John Newtson:

No, no, I was just gonna say, like you know, people have to remember, like the, this is like the, the, the elegance of Bonner calling the company the Agora, because it was a market, which is Greek term for market. It's the marketplace of ideas, and so, like the ideas matter and it felt, I think it felt like for a while during that boom that the ideas didn't matter so much, yeah, and that you know it's a mean reversion. We're back to the industry. Ideas kind of ruled the industry for a long time.

Chris Cimorelli:

And you know the reason that this business really appeals to someone like me, like I. Again, english major college, I studied Latin. I understood what the Agora was and I'm like that's a really interesting and provocative and like just intelligent way to label and market your financial newsletter business. Because at the time I had no interest in finance at all. I I was very skinny, I didn't have a muscle on my body, I was just a dude who just liked reading books. I'm like money, oh, it's so base, it's so pretentious. I was the pretentious one, but I was like there's something interesting about the way that they're pitching this company and I think that's why the business is as successful as it is, because it attracts the money people, but it also attracts these weird libertarian people.

John Newtson:

And then it attracts people like me who's kind of like in the middle somewhere, where it's like I'm weird but I also like money well, that's the thing, is like this point that's what's so great about it to me is like this like there's this weird intellectual intersection of the economy, politics, um, companies, investments, stock markets and kind of like the you know this constant dance that's happening between them, history like, but the practical, like, you know, you come up with a thesis or an idea or an opinion and you can tell whether you made or lost money on it, right, and so there's like this very in your face, aggressive kind of aspect to it.

Chris Cimorelli:

um, yeah, but it's.

Chris Cimorelli:

It's also I mean this is gonna sound really hokey in a very kumbaya, but it's really about the search for truth is what I think, and that's what gets back to that intellectual core of it.

Chris Cimorelli:

Money, like it or not, is at the center of everything, and I mean, I think that working for this company has made me, honestly, a better voter. It's also maybe just more sympathetic to the plights of every person, no matter like what side they fall on the aisle, because it all comes down to money and financial anxiety and there's a lot of financial anxieties these days. And finding that core truth, you know, with this big, intelligent idea and not just showing yourself as some used car salesman in a shitty suit uh, really appeals to a lot of people right now, and they're not necessarily looking for salvation, they're just looking for, like something, some guiding light, something that brings some meaning to the chaos of this moment. And I think that we articulated that extremely well with this promotion, where we basically recapped 50 years of american history and explained why everything's about to turn, and it's like if you've been waiting for something. This is the thing, yeah yeah, that's, that's awesome.

John Newtson:

I love that I love that. So what do you think is? What do you think is missing for some? Not just promos, but it's. There's a malaise in a lot of publishing businesses right now.

Chris Cimorelli:

There is, there still is. Yeah, we've, we've gotten over hours and a lot of that is just like the, the brain power, and a lot of it is is the leadership Um, matt is. He's a workhorse, he really is Um and but he also is a nice guy who knows how to have fun and he's very, very human. It's an interesting question because I do see this a lot in our business, where I still see a lot of those stale, safe headlines and look, sometimes that works, like Alex Green's Next's, like next magnificent seven. I still see ads for that and I'm like that's, that's working. Don't stop it, don't fight it.

Chris Cimorelli:

I mean, he does, you know, and I think the oxford club kind of fits in that kind of like. It's the oxford club. It has that elegance in that sense of elitism to it very intentionally. So that is kind of the demo that you want to serve with with that, so, so I give them a pass is what I'm trying to say. And and obviously that's one of the most stable, you know, businesses in in the industry. But I I think that because it's hard, because I do see a lot of copywriters who are just like oh, I want to write about this idea that I like. Okay, does the market like it? Is there any news? No, don't write about it. Find an idea that you like and like it because it's relevant. Find an idea that's relevant, that's different. And but honestly, john, like I spend a lot of time after hours when the market's closed, when business is closed, just like looking on my robin hood account, just like chart go a little bit pretty, I'll scroll down, like what are the related stocks to this stock.

Chris Cimorelli:

I've never heard of this one Just doing research which sparks a thought, an original thought, and it's just poking around and finding this stuff, organically, researching stocks, reading Something's going to come to you. But you have to have these conversations with your peers in your business and it can be outside of your company too Just someone who cares about these concepts, and just have these conversations until that spark comes to you. But you need to have those people. No man is an Island. There's no copy cave. Get out of your stupid copy cave because you're writing shitty copy inside of it. You think it's brilliant because it's you and you're in love with yourself and you love the way you look in the mirror, but actually it's not that great.

Chris Cimorelli:

I had the same problem every first draft. I'm like this is the best thing I've ever written. I submit it and they're like this has a lot of problems. I look at at it. I'm like you're right, I was like drunk last night, like or something. I wasn't drunk, I was on, but it's something like that.

Chris Cimorelli:

Have conversations. Have conversations with people who don't just care about money and about the business but about the ideas, intelligent people, and that's an example of like that's something Matt is very good at, matt very good at the business. But also just like we have a Slack channel called YOLO Trades and it's just us being degenerates and being like I want to buy this. This stock looks like it wants to go up, let's go. Like that's the attitude, that's the vibe, but it's just like we've got a little bit of discretionary income that we want to waste and gamble because it's fun. Right, like you've got to have the fun, you've got to have, have fun, have fun. That's it. That's it. That's the trick, john just have some damn fun, enjoy the business because it's so freaking cool and and surround yourself with people who are excited about it. You know as well. That's it. I think it's the secret wise words from chris simirelli.

John Newtson:

I try, I love this man. Thank you, uh, thanks for doing this. Um, yeah, thank you. Any any parting thoughts to uh the finpub world here, other than, like, eat my dust?

Chris Cimorelli:

no, no, because I'm. I'm wrapping up another promotion right now that we're a little skeptical about because it's a rushed job. It has to go out before the FOMC meeting in September. So you know, we're going to see if I can do it again. Chances are I'm not and that I might be humbled Once again. It happens to the best of us. It's this service I'm launching, where I am going after 1000% winners. I figured out the architecture of it, I've cracked the 10 X code and it's, but it's. It's a much more straightforward, greedy promotion, and so it doesn't really have that much of the the bigness and grandeur to it. But what it does have is this just really really strangeness to it, where it's just like you've never seen someone have this many, many, a thousand percent winners. So there is this bigger element.

John Newtson:

Yeah, yeah, in recent that that that helps too.

Chris Cimorelli:

So there is this bigness to it in the sense that, like, yeah, there's this big thing that's going to happen on September 17th. I used this same thing one year ago to make three of these 1000% winners. Here they are I mean basically six figures of those three trades.

John Newtson:

But it's not a marketing gimmick or it's not a repackaging of other things to make it seem like 1000% gains. It's. Here is a real money track record. Yeah, I actually made these trades. Here's the stuff. Yeah, that's. There's a, there's an immediacy and I think power to that. That's different than repackaging stuff that like, oh, this could, if you got in here and got out there, he could have made this. Um, you know what I mean? There's a. The visceralness gets lost in that.

Chris Cimorelli:

In my in kudos to those copywriters who know how to write that copy, because I don't know how to do it. Like I'm I'm very simple. In some ways. It's why I tried to get as much actual financial knowledge as I can, because I'm like I don't know how to do some of this clever shit y'all are doing, like this thing and stuff. I'm like I'm just like, how did you get so creative to manufacture an argument that doesn't really exist? I'm like I'm like like kudos. Honestly, I'm like, yeah right, you're a better sales person than I am. Um, I have to rely on real, actual, tangible, physical evidence.

John Newtson:

Um, no, but so so yeah, you're an embarrassment okay, just an embarrassment it's just an embarrassment, like you can't just manufacture stuff out of your ass and sell it I don't, I don't, I'm not good at it, I'm really not no, that's not, I don't think. I see, I see really creative promotion sometimes and I'm really not.

Chris Cimorelli:

No, that's not, I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of. I see, I see really creative promotion sometimes and I'm like I can't do that and it makes me feel very inadequate actually. Or I'm like yeah, like I.

John Newtson:

I'm like I don't know, this is just something about, like the, I think, careers is you figure out what this is?

Chris Cimorelli:

not trying to do the things.

John Newtson:

Yeah, absolutely true, yeah, yeah, and so, and you're, and you know, your market always comes back around. You know, one of the one of the things when clayton uh, maybe he's passed away um, uh, you know, one of the many tragedies of that was that I felt like, for for the last part of his career, the market was not his market, right, like, um, he killed it in times of anxiety, times of fear, times of, and so I felt like, you know, post-covid, like when things got set, like that was exactly the time, like we're entering a market that like he had crushed it again, um, because it's the kind of thing that he did so well, and so, like, yeah, I was like you know but Well, I do think that there is an emerging renaissance for people who who want to claim it, and I am also very glad that there is some talks about how this promotion reinvigorated the industry.

Chris Cimorelli:

It's not the best promotion ever. It has not even broken 10 million yet it will when we do a second campaign with it, which we will do. Obviously, there's a promotion out there that have done 30, 20, $30 million. However, it is a sign that like, oh, we're not, we're not, we're not out, we're not done.

John Newtson:

I mean it's been, it's been a minute.

Chris Cimorelli:

It has. You know, it was the best one day sales number in agora in, I think, six and a half, seven years. Yeah, so it feels good for a lot of people. Um, because 2020 and 2021 are also pretty decent freaking years and we beat that too, you said you said.

John Newtson:

You said something to me before too that I thought was really interesting. Interesting just to wrap it up with, was that you didn't say it this way, but in my head I heard it a little bit, like a little bit, there's a little bit of an aspect of the four minute mile here where we stopped believing that we could do this again. Yeah right, and that that is one of those things. If you, if you kind of like elaborate on that.

Chris Cimorelli:

I think that's a great way to end this call, cause I do have to jump onto our three o'clock copy call at paradigm in in about one minute. Um, I can be a minute late. I've I've got a little bit of of wiggle room with them now. Um, it is the the problem of self-limiting beliefs and this is, this is something you see in like a lot of the old school, like dating copy, like you know that stuff that you like stumbled upon at like 1 am. It's like this guy has the secret formula to make women love you.

Chris Cimorelli:

It's all about self-limiting beliefs and I don't like being underestimated. I've never underestimated myself. I've always held myself to a high standard and this is going to be a big message in my 10X trader promotion is I wanted to believe that 1000% gains are possible. I manifested that shit. But it really is just about choosing to believe that this can be done and then just going and doing it and doing the hard work, but also enjoying the journey and loving the process and really, really, you have to have joy in it. You really do.

Chris Cimorelli:

For me, the money is not the first thing, it is. I genuinely enjoy working in this business, these kind of intellectual conversations that also have to do with business, but just finding truth or what keep me alive. Quite frankly, I would blow my head off if all I did was just like have mind-numbing conversations all day, or it was just honestly probably still teaching. That probably would have killed me too. But I I think, yeah, just just believing that it can be done to remove your self-limiting beliefs, because they are probably killing you in your business. And with that said, john, thank you sir, go ahead, please wrap it up.

John Newtson:

No, no, I was just gonna finish, I was just gonna say thanks for doing this and I think with that, like the way that, like that, that belief in the copy is, is that like, don't believe that it's good enough, go back to it and be like, how can you make this excellent, because it's gonna matter and you know, like some of my best promotions at banyan, like I wrote this first called one trade.

Chris Cimorelli:

I literally spent 18 months writing that promotion. I don't know how I took that long, but it ended up being like $10 million promotion. It was worth it. Um, but that's extreme. We don't have that kind of time these days. But go back and rewrite it. You're never, ever, ever going to get it right. And first try. Awesome, okay, all right.

John Newtson:

Thanks, hey, man, this is great, that's okay, all right, thanks.

Chris Cimorelli:

Chris, hey man, this is great, this is awesome, you're amazing, same Same.

John Newtson:

Love talking to you. Love talking to you. You too, dude, all right, take care. Bye, you too, bye.